A Conversation with Machiavelli · Pair 17 of 39
Editor's summary Machiavelli holds that whoever reforms the state of a free city must, to have it accepted, keep at least the shadow of the ancient ways, because men feed as much on what seems as on what is; so Rome kept the kings' number of lictors and a king for the sacrifices, whereas whoever makes a tyranny must renew everything. Guicciardini says the conclusion is more necessary where a government is reformed than where its kind is changed: when a kingdom is made free, as at Rome, men already think the old way of living not good, and the ancient orders need not be kept so exactly. The Roman examples, he says, matter little: one allowed for superstition, and in the other greater insignia would not have been tolerable.
Chi vuole riformare uno Stato antico in una Città libera, ritenga almeno l'ombra de' modi antichi.
Whoever wishes to reform an ancient state in a free city, let him retain at least the shadow of the ancient ways.
Argument. The precept, its condition and its reason, in one period. Whoever would reform the state of a city, if he wants the reform accepted and maintained with the satisfaction of each, is necessitated to retain at least the shadow of the ancient ways, so that it may not seem to the peoples that the order has changed, even though the new orders are in fact altogether alien from the old. The reason is a claim about the generality of men: they feed on what seems as much as on what is, and many times are moved more by what seems. The precept is conditional: it binds whoever wants the reform accepted and maintained.
Cross-reference. Guicciardini answers this period by ranking the cases it fits Guicciardini .01: reform within a species of government, where it is more necessary, against a change of species, where it is less.
Argument. The Roman proof, in two cases, and each keeps something different. When the kings were expelled and two consuls created in place of one king, the consuls were given no more than the twelve lictors the king had had, so as not to pass the old number: the number kept. And since a yearly sacrifice could be made only by the king, the Romans, so that the people should not come to desire, through the absence of the kings, anything of the ancient things, created a head of that sacrifice, called him king, and subjected him to the supreme priest: the name kept, and the man set under the supreme priest. The people were satisfied, and never had the want of it as a cause to desire the kings' return.
History. Livy tells of both. Livy's first consuls keep all the kings' rights and insignia, and the only caution is that both should not have the fasces at once, so that the terror should not seem doubled (2.1.8); the kings' twelve lictors go back to Romulus (1.8). Of the rex sacrificulus, that because some public rites had been performed by the kings in person, a king of sacrifices was created so that the kings should nowhere be missed, and set under the pontifex lest the name, joined to an honour, should stand in the way of liberty (2.2.1-2). Machiavelli's reason for the second case, the people's desire, is Livy's; the first he turns into the keeping of a number.
Argument. The general precept, its terms, and its limit. Whoever would cancel an ancient living in a city and bring it to a new and free one must observe this: since new things alter men's minds, the alterations should retain as much of the old as possible, and if the magistracies vary in number, authority and time, they should at least keep the name. The Roman cases return in this list: the lictors were a matter of number, the king of sacrifices a matter of name. The last period, "as I have said", fixes the precept's scope: it holds for whoever would order an absolute power by the path of a republic or a kingdom; whoever would make the absolute power the authors call tyranny must renew every thing, as the following chapter will say.
Cross-reference. I.26, whose rubric is that a new prince must make every thing new in a city or province taken by him, is the next chapter in this edition, and Guicciardini answers it too.
Text. The 1554 edition drops the words between the first assoluta and the second, so that the sentence runs on without the contrast between republic or kingdom and tyranny.
Established from the 1824 edition (WIT-NM-DISC-1824-IA), page-image-backed, which governs. Collated against the 1554 Giglio printing, Venice (WIT-NM-DISC-1554-IA), which is comparison evidence only.
Paragraph divisions are editorial. The witness prints the chapter as one unbroken block.
debbe osservare colui che vuole ordinare una potenza assoluta, o per via di Repubblica, o di Regno; ma quello che vuol fare una potestà assoluta, la quale dagli autori è chiamata Tirannide, debbe rinnovare ogni cosa — 1824. The 1554 witness reads debbe oſſeruare colui,che uuole ordinare una potenza aſſoluta,laquale da gli auttori è chiamata tirannide,perche debbe rinouare ogni coſa. Checked on the leaf (fol. 41r). The 1554 omits the words between one assoluta and the next, an eye-skip, so that the renewal of everything is prescribed to whoever would order any absolute power, and the distinction of republic or kingdom from tyranny is lost. The 1824 is what the chapter's argument and the next chapter's rubric need.
gli ordini nuovi fussero al tutto alieni dai passati — 1824. The 1554 witness reads gli ordini nuoui fuſſero al tutto diuerſi da i paſſati. Checked on the leaf (fol. 40v): the 1554 diuersi, "different", for the 1824 alieni, "alien". A weaker word for the same claim.
e lo sottomessono al sommo Sacerdote — 1824. The 1554 witness reads et lo ſottomeſſono al Sacerdote. Checked on the leaf (fol. 40v): the 1554 has no sommo. The 1824's chief priest is the pontifex maximus; the 1554 says only "the priest".
ritengano più dell'antico sia possibile — 1824. The 1554 witness reads ritenghino piu dell'antico, che ſia poßibile. Checked on the leaf (fol. 40v-41r): the 1554 has che. The 1824 reading rests on pass A alone, outside the sample, read without doubt; it construes as an elliptical comparative and is kept, D38 (D270). The sense is the same.
Orthography, capitalization, word division and punctuation follow the governing witness throughout; no reading is hybridized between witnesses.
Colui che desidera o che vuole. "He who desires or who wishes": desiderare, desire, and volere, wish, kept apart (D117).
riformare uno stato d'una Città. "To reform a state of a city": the stato is the city's order of government, as in the rubric. riformare, reform: the word Guicciardini makes the hinge of his reply, against mutare, change.
a volere che sia accetto. "If he wishes it to be accepted": the infinitive a volere is conditional. accetto, accepted, of the new state.
con satisfazione di ciascuno. "With the satisfaction of each": ciascuno, each (D161). satisfarsi, satisfy itself, at .02, keeps the root.
è necessitato a ritenere. "Is necessitated to retain": necessitato, the participle of necessity, kept apart from è necessario, "it is necessary", and from bisogna, "it is required" (D260).
l'ombra almanco de' modi antichi. "At least the shadow of the ancient ways": almanco sits after l'ombra in the Italian and applies to it; the English puts "at least" before "the shadow", where its scope is the same.
acciò che ai Popoli non paja avere mutato ordine. "So that it may not seem to the peoples to have changed order": the subject of avere mutato is unexpressed: either the reformed state (the lo of poterlo), or, taking paja as impersonal, the peoples themselves, as in mi pare avere. The English "it" holds both. ordine, order (glossary), singular, then gli ordini nuovi, "the new orders".
ancora che in fatto gli ordini nuovi fussero al tutto alieni dai passati. "Even though in fact the new orders were altogether alien from the past ones": ancora che, even though (glossary). The 1554 edition reads diversi, "different", for alieni (NM-DISC-I25-D002).
l'universale degli uomini. "The generality of men": universale as a noun, the generality (glossary, I.16).
si pasce così di quel che pare, come di quello che è. "Feeds itself as much on what seems as on what is": pascersi, to feed oneself. The singular l'universale takes a plural verb in the next clause (si muovono), and the English follows: "itself", then "they". parere, seem, held through pajono, "seem", in the next clause.
anzi molte volte. "Indeed many times": anzi correcting upward after an affirmative, "indeed" (D147); not "on the contrary" (D135), which would reverse.
nel principio del loro vivere libero. "In the beginning of their free living": vivere libero, free living, as vivere civile, vivere politico.
avendo in cambio d'un Re creati i duoi Consoli. "Having created in place of one king the two consuls": the numerals are Machiavelli's point, one king, two consuls, and the twelve lictors that one king had; the Italian order is kept for that contrast (D263). creare, create, of magistrates, as FG I.3 (D89).
non vollono ch'egli avessero più che dodici Littori. "Did not wish them to have more than twelve lictors": egli, plural, "they", the consuls. Livy (2.1.8) has only one of the first consuls hold the fasces, Brutus first by his colleague's leave, so that the terror should not seem doubled; Machiavelli gives the twelve lictors and the reason in his own terms.
ministravano. "Ministered": attended, as the lictors attended the kings.
non avesse a desiderare. "Should not have to desire": avere a after a negative, "have to" (D261).
alcuna cosa dell'antiche. "Any thing of the ancient ones": the ancient things, the institutions of the kings.
crearono un Capo. "[They] created a head": the subject, the Romans, stands in the absolute phrase before it; the English supplies the pronoun in brackets (D53).
Re sacrificolo. "King sacrificulus": the rex sacrificulus or rex sacrorum, the priest created after the expulsion of the kings to perform the royal sacrifices, and set under the pontifex maximus so that the name of king should carry no power (Livy 2.2). The English translates Re, because the name of king is what the Romans kept, and leaves the Latin title in italic; Guicciardini's re Sacrificulo is rendered the same way.
lo sottomessono al sommo Sacerdote. "Subjected him to the supreme priest": sommo, supreme (D190); the pontifex maximus. The 1554 edition reads al Sacerdote, "to the priest", without sommo (NM-DISC-I25-D003).
Talmenteché. "So that": talmente che, as FG I.10 (glossary).
per questa via. "By this path": via, path (D131), and again at .03, per via di Repubblica.
venne a satisfarsi di quel sacrifizio. "Came to satisfy itself of that sacrifice": to have its fill of it.
per mancamento di esso. "Through the failing of it": mancamento, the noun of mancare, fail (D206).
la tornata de' Re. "The return of the kings".
si debbe osservare. "Must be observed": dovere, must, as ti debbi, debbe osservare and debbe rinnovare below.
scancellare uno antico vivere. "Cancel an ancient living": scancellare, the intensive of cancellare, cancel (D249); the English keeps one root.
Perché alterando le cose nuove le menti degli uomini. "For, new things altering the minds of men": the gerund, with its own subject, gives the cause of the precept; Perché links the precept to the sentence before. The English keeps the absolute construction, as at .02. ridurre, reduce, in its older sense, bring to, as FG I.10 ridursi privato.
ti debbi ingegnare. "You must contrive": the second person enters for the precept, as at NM I.23. ingegnarsi, contrive, as NM I.9.
ritengano più dell'antico sia possibile. "Retain as much of the ancient as is possible": the 1824 prints no che before sia, and both the 1824 reader and the comparative read it as elliptical; the 1554 edition has che sia possibile. Put to David and kept as printed (D270; NM-DISC-I25-D004). The sense is the same either way.
i Magistrati. "The magistracies": the offices, which vary in number, authority and time (D93).
che almeno ritengano il nome. "That at least they retain the name": the che resumes the precept after the condition. The Romans kept the name of king in the rex sacrificulus.
colui che vuole ordinare una potenza assoluta, o per via di Repubblica, o di Regno; ma quello che vuol fare una potestà assoluta. "He who wishes to order an absolute power, either by the path of a republic or of a kingdom; but he who wishes to make an absolute power": the Italian sets ordinare against fare and potenza against potestà. The edition renders both nouns "power" (D78, a recorded collapse), so in English the contrast is carried by order against make, and by republic or kingdom against tyranny; the facing Italian shows the second noun change. The collapse is kept here by ruling (D278). The 1554 edition omits the words from the first assoluta to the second, by an eye-skip, so that renewal of every thing is prescribed to whoever orders any absolute power (NM-DISC-I25-D001).
la quale dagli autori è chiamata Tirannide. "Which is called tyranny by the authors": autori, the writers, probably the ancient writers on forms of government; tirannide, tyranny (glossary). The Italian puts the agent first; the order does no work here, so English order (D263).
E questo, come ho detto, debbe osservare colui che vuole. "And this, as I have said, he must observe who wishes": the object first and the subject last, as the Italian, because the two subjects are the contrast the sentence turns on, "he who wishes to order ... but he who wishes to make" (D263).
come nel seguente capitolo si dirà. "As will be said in the following chapter": I.26, whose rubric is that a new prince must make every thing new. Guicciardini replies to it too.
Chi vuole riformare uno stato antico in una città libera, ritenga almeno l'ombra de' modi antichi.
Whoever wishes to reform an ancient state in a free city, let him retain at least the shadow of the ancient ways. Canestrini's setting of the chapter title, in lower case, with stato and città uncapitalised; the stop is faint. It is heading apparatus, not Guicciardini's (D32).
Argument. A comparative, then a reclassification, then substitute reasons. Guicciardini does not deny the conclusion of the Discourse: he says it is more necessary for whoever reforms a government without changing its species, for example by introducing new orders in a free city, than for whoever changes the species. The reason is men's opinion. If out of a kingdom one introduces a liberty, as the Romans did, men already hold that the old living is not good, and there is no call to conserve the old orders so exactly.
Note. Then Machiavelli's two Roman examples, which he finds not of much moment. He does not call them false; he gives each another reason. In the king of sacrifices, respect was had to the superstition men could have in religion. The lictors were limited because, the royal power having been changed as too great, it would not have been tolerable to arm the consuls with insignia of greater power. Neither is Machiavelli's reason, the keeping of the shadow of the old ways.
Cross-reference. The reply moves Machiavelli's own case into the class where the rule matters less. Machiavelli applies the precept to whoever would bring a city from an ancient living to "a new and free living" Machiavelli .03, and proves it by Rome after the kings Machiavelli .02: exactly the change of species from kingdom to liberty. Guicciardini's example, in una città libera, is the rubric's own case: a city already free, reformed within its form.
Cross-reference. On the lictors the two authors address the same limit from different sides. Machiavelli says the consuls were held to twelve "so as not to pass the number" of the kings' attendants Machiavelli .02, and reads it as keeping the shadow of the old; Guicciardini says nothing of the number: after a royal power rejected as too great, greater insignia would not have been borne. On the king of sacrifices, Machiavelli's reason is the people's desire for the kings; Guicciardini's is superstition; Machiavelli gives no religious reason.
History. Livy's account (2.1.8; 2.2.1-2) has both readings in view: the fasces were not held by both consuls at once, so that the terror should not seem doubled, near Guicciardini's reason for the lictors; the king of sacrifices was created for rites the kings had performed, so that the kings should nowhere be missed, where the occasion is religious and the motive is Machiavelli's Machiavelli .02. Neither author cites Livy here.
Established from Canestrini 1857, Opere inedite vol. 1, pp. 1–65 (WIT-FG-CONS-1857-CANESTRINI) — the editio princeps, which governs. Collated against Palmarocchi 1933 (WIT-FG-CONS-1933-PALMAROCCHI): page images and the Wikisource transcription consulted as collation evidence, not reproduced (LICENSE §5).
La c[o]nclusione del Discorso. The 1857 witness reads La canclusione del Discorso. The 1933 witness reads La conclusione del Discorso. Both cold readers see a clear a; canclusione is not a word. Emended under D68 from the 1933 edition (D267).
che a chi muta spezie di governo. The 1857 witness reads che [a/n] chi muta spezie di governo (a damaged letter). The 1933 witness reads che a chi muta spezie di governo. The readers split on which form they preferred, each giving the other's as alternative: A a, B the printed n-shape. N is not a word; the comparison needs a chi, as in a chi non muta just before. A reading, not an emendation (D268).
se di uno regno. The 1857 witness reads se di [u/a]no regno (a damaged letter). The 1933 witness reads se di uno regno. The readers split on which form they preferred: A uno, B ano, each giving the other's as alternative. Ano is not a word in this sense; the scan breaks u into a- and n-shapes throughout. A reading (D268).
si armassino e' consuli. The 1857 witness reads si armassino [e/è] consuli (a speck above the letter). The 1933 witness reads si armassino e' consuli. Both readers doubted whether a speck above the e is a grave accent. È consuli does not construe; the plural article, as the 1933 edition reads, does. A reading (D269); the apostrophe by D35.
Orthography, capitalization, word division and punctuation follow the governing witness throughout; no reading is hybridized between witnesses.
La c[o]nclusione del Discorso. "The conclusion of the Discourse": il Discorso, Machiavelli's chapter, as at FG I.23 and I.24. Canestrini prints canclusione, which both cold readers read and which is not a word; emended from the 1933 edition (D267; FG-CONS-I25-D001).
è più necessaria a chi non muta spezie di governo, ma lo riforma ... che a chi muta spezie di governo. "Is more necessary to whoever does not change the species of government but reforms it ... than to whoever changes the species of government": a comparative. Guicciardini does not deny Machiavelli's conclusion; he ranks the cases it fits. Machiavelli applies the rule to exactly the case Guicciardini ranks lower, tutti coloro che vogliono scancellare uno antico vivere in una Città, e ridurla ad uno vivere nuovo e libero (Machiavelli .03), and keeps the renewal of every thing for tyranny alone; Guicciardini's in una città libera takes the rubric's own case as the one the conclusion fits. spezie, species (glossary); riformare, reform, the rubric's verb, now set against mutare, change. The readers split on the letter before chi muta (A a, B n); ruled a (D268; FG-CONS-I25-D002).
verbi gratia. Latin, "for example", kept in italic, as FG I.23.
introdurre nuovi ordini. "To introduce new orders": ordine, order (glossary), as Machiavelli's ordini nuovi (Machiavelli .01).
se di uno regno io introduco una libertà. "If out of a kingdom I introduce a liberty": the first person is Guicciardini's hypothetical founder, not a claim about himself. libertà, liberty (glossary). The readers split on uno (B ano); ruled uno (D268; FG-CONS-I25-D003).
come feciono e' Romani. "As the Romans did": the expulsion of the kings, Machiavelli's own example, which Guicciardini reclassifies as a change of species, not a reform.
essendo già nella opinione degli uomini che quello vivere non sia buono. "It being already in the opinion of men that that living is not good": opinione, opinion (D02); vivere, living, as Machiavelli's vivere libero (.02) and uno antico vivere (.03). The subjunctive sia is that of the reported opinion.
non accade conservare sì esattamente gli ordini antichi. "There is no call to conserve the ancient orders so exactly": non accade, impersonal; accadere is "happen" elsewhere (FG I.23), but "it does not happen to conserve" is not English, and "occasion" is occasione's. conservare, conserve (D220). The claim is of degree, sì esattamente, not that the ancient orders may be thrown away.
E lo esemplo de' littori e del re Sacrificulo non sono di molto momento. "And the example of the lictors and of the king sacrificulus are not of much moment": the singular esemplo takes the plural sono, two examples counted as one; the English keeps the disagreement rather than correct it: kept, not a misprint. di molto momento, of much moment (glossary, I.8). re Sacrificulo, as Machiavelli's Re sacrificolo (Machiavelli .02), in Guicciardini's Latin form.
nell'uno s'ebbe rispetto alla superstizione. "In the one respect was had to the superstition": l'uno is the second-named, the king of sacrifices; l'altro the lictors. The order is crossed against the order of naming. avere rispetto a, have respect to (glossary). Guicciardini gives the king of sacrifices a religious reason, where Machiavelli gave a political one (the people should not miss the kings); he calls it superstition, Machiavelli did not.
che potevano avere gli uomini nella religione. "Which men could have in religion": religione, religion (glossary).
nell'altro non sarebbe stato tollerabile. "In the other it would not have been tolerable": the lictors. Machiavelli too says the number was held per non passare that of the kings (Machiavelli .02); Guicciardini reads the same limit differently: not as keeping the shadow of the old, but because, the kingship having been changed as too great, insignia of greater power would not have been borne.
mutando la potestà regia come troppa. "Changing the royal power as too much": the gerund has no expressed subject, and the English leaves it so; the Romans changed the kingship because its power was too great. mutare, change, the reply's verb (muta twice in the first period). potestà, power (D78). Machiavelli's one potestà is the tyrant's, set against potenza, ordered power (Machiavelli .03); Guicciardini uses potestà twice, of royal and of consular power. The collapse in English hides that; the collapse is kept by ruling (D278).
si armassino e' consuli con insegne di maggiore potestà. "The consuls should be armed with insignia of greater power": si passive. Both readers doubted whether the letter before consuli carries an accent; è does not construe; read e', the article (D269; FG-CONS-I25-D004). insegne, insignia: the lictors with their fasces were the visible sign of the consuls' imperium. The reply ends here, with a faint stop.